EPISODE 04
[INTRODUCTION]
[0:00:04.5] RW: Welcome to this episode of We Hear You from Harambe Social Services in South Jersey. We Hear You is designed to give a voice to victims and survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault. This forum is for survivors and their allies to discuss issues that impact them and their families, as well to educate communities. In the coming segments, we will hear from survivors, they will tell us their stories and what they would like for us to know. As allies, we want to hear how we can support them.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:00:47.1] RW: Welcome to this episode of We Hear you. Tonight’s guest is My’Lasia Brown. My’Lasia excited to have you here today, how are you?
[0:00:58.6] MB: Thank you having me, I’m great, how are you?
[0:01:00.6] RW: Terrific. My’Lasia, you are recent graduate from Stockton College, is that correct?
[0:01:08.9] MB: Yes, I just graduated, this past May.
[0:01:11.3] RW: What was your major?
[0:01:12.6] MB: I majored in Social Work and then my minor is in Africana Studies.
[0:01:16.9] RW: Fantastic. You are also currently an employee of Harambe Social Services, that’s correct?
[0:01:23.9] MB: Yes, I’m the program assistant.
[0:01:25.5] RW: Fantastic. We were excited to have you on because we wanted to have perspective on different people, particularly having a perspective of different generations, related to intimate partner violence. We want to focus somewhat on sexual assault tonight, because we know that you have had some experience in that area. We want to just start right off with what your experiences have been as an advocate with sexual assault?
[0:02:00.2] MB: In my previous job, I was a domestic violence and sexual assault advocate for an emergency battered women’s shelter. So I entered the crisis hotline and I did like the intakes for victim survivors who were in media danger and needed safe shelter. A part of entering the crisis hotline, was also – for instance, if there was a domestic violence incident between a woman and her current boyfriend and the police were called, the police station would get in contact with the crisis hotline and I would be able to offer services to the victim or there is the girlfriend or the boyfriend because domestic violence can affect everyone. Nobody’s immune to it.
Some of the services we would offer is like counseling, prior to COVID, we had support groups, we also have like the emergency shelters, we’re able to help relocate them to a different shelter in another county if need be. And the main goal was to just get them out of whatever immediate danger they were in and then help them rebuild their lives back up into a safe and healthy environment.
[0:03:14.6] RW: Well those services are so important to the victims. Especially that they can get that immediate attention. What would you say when we’re talking a bit more about DV, in terms of the DV situation when an officer is coming to determine who is the primary aggressor? Have you seen cases where the woman or the female in the situation if it’s a male, female situation, have you seen that whether the female becomes the primary aggressor or accused of being the primary aggressor?
[0:03:54.1] MB: Yes, there is a misconception that men aren’t victims oftentimes and that’s largely because a lot of men are embarrassed to either report or admit that their partner who is of the opposite gender is abusing them and I have witnessed with the man being the victim or the victim survivor, it’s not necessarily physical against him, it will be like, maybe he wanted to leave their relationship and she didn’t so she slashed his tires or broke his window or harasses him to a point where he’s not able to live his life safely or manipulation. Taking his money or not allowing him to do things he would want to do and he has the right to do and oftentimes, even when we would get calls and there is a male victim, 9 times out of 10, they refused to talk to us or they don’t want any services that we offer.
Even though one of the services that they could use and reap the benefits of, is a court advocate, they also do court advocacy where someone helps them through the process of either filling out a police report, helping them in the court, just being that extra support system but a lot of male victims that I have to talk to are so stuck on the stigma of being a victim that they kind of don’t explore their other options of health.
[0:05:27.5] RW: Yeah, I can see very easily how that can happen because of all the stereotypes we have now. Male roles and gender roles in general and we would serve, the victims could certainly have problematic outcomes when seeking help and this also comes up and you should say for our audience and although we will reference male, female relationships, they’re definitely same-sex relationships either males to males or two females that become violent and part of your services as well, is that correct?
[0:06:07.5] MB: Absolutely. I know a big thing within the LGBTQA+ community, when it comes to domestic violence, a part of that is threatening to out the other partner or if someone hasn’t came out as being lesbian, gay, transgender, wherever they fall on that spectrum, there is that fear of them being outed, that the abusing partner can use against them or just in general, the negative interactions that people have with the LGBTQ community, it kind of almost hinders them from wanting to go to the police or seek justice because of the way they’re treated in society.
[0:06:50.8] RW: The psychological impact of domestic violence is very big and we’ve talked about that with some of our other guests and certainly for this particular community that this psychological harassment around outing people is major because it could mean losing your job, losing the support of the family or any other number of consequences that are grave so –
[0:07:20.9] MB: It’s that act of taking that power from them which is the common denominator of from domestic violence to sexual assault, it’s the power and control.
[0:07:29.5] RW: Absolutely. Yeah, holding that power over them that, "I hold the secret and I can damage you at any time," and that’s really what someone who is an abuser, that’s what they use to harm the victim very often. That shed some light definitely on the whole issue around gender roles and how gender roles impact what happens to victims in these situations and that — I'm going come back a bit to the sexual assault and how women are impacted because of gender roles around sexual assault and how sometimes these sexual assaults occur in your experience as an advocate, what kinds of stories have you heard about these attacks?
[0:08:17.5] MB: Are you asking like sexual assault –
[0:08:19.7] RW: For sexual assault, yeah.
[0:08:22.0] MB: Specifically for a demographic.
[0:08:24.0] RW: Well, sexual assault in general in that I think many of us kind of grow up or learn as we grow older, beware of strangers, somebody’s going to come lurking in the bushes, it’s this person that’s going to attack you and we find that I’m not sure if you have some numbers around. How many of these attacks are actually a lot of people that should know.
[0:08:50.1] MB: Statistically, majority of the perpetrators in whether it’s intimate partner violence or sexual assault is someone they know, they’re dating, a friend or a mutual friend, it’s usually someone they know. In a lot of the stories that are cases that I’ve seen, it’s been someone that they trusted, whether it’s a close friend, sometimes a family friend, sometimes a family member going back to what you said on almost like how we’re raised to fear like this certain kind of monster when it comes to sexual assault.
I remember just like growing up and being told not to wear my clothes too tight or not to wear my skirt to short or don’t reveal too much skin, even from childhood, all throughout schools and dress codes and linen wear, spaghetti strapped tank tops because they were more focused on basically victim-blaming, instead of focusing on teaching, I’m going to use men in particular, instead of teaching other men not to rape, they were more focused on teaching women.
I don’t’ even know how to get the words out there, they’re more training us to be, I think submissive. Just instead of allowing us to do as we feel and as we please and giving us that right and that space, they’re more focusing on keeping us in like this box, instead of making sure that men or rapists aren’t raping people, their attention is on, I assume, what they thought would keep women from being safe but it’s not working.
I think that’s how a lot of these kind of organizations came about because the way we were taught and the way it was being done was not working and is not working. I know, recently like last year, Governor Murphy extended the politics on statutes of limitations on sexual assault here in New Jersey. Prior to him making the change, if you were sexually assaulted as a child, we only had up until the age of 20 to report it. Now you have up to the age of 55 and there is no statute of limitations on rape and sexual assault at all.
[0:11:05.5] RW: That’s a very good move.
[0:11:07.0] MB: Yeah, it’s huge because not only is there a disconnect between victims reporting, they’re not previously were on this given very short amount of time to report and sometimes people discover that they were sexually assaulted, it’s not always, because when you’re sexually assaulted as a child, you represses those kind of memories or you don’t know what’s going on and you discover it later, that doesn’t mean you can’t report it, it doesn’t mean you still can’t seek justice.
[0:11:38.1] RW: You were talking about the extended timeframe for victims to report and I think that definitely is so important, especially for those who are victim while they’re children but even as adults, I think because of this whole dynamic we have around gender roles and how the sex comes into play and whether or not it’s consensual or not. Based on understanding that males and females have misconceptions about what is consensual sex.
Very often, I’m hearing in the news, these stories of men who believe they’re absolutely innocent of anything and while the woman is convinced she’s been raped. Can you speak to that a little bit because I think that ties into this whole statute of limitations issue.
[0:12:35.9] MB: That’s a little more difficult. Only because my experience has been more so with the actual victims than human opportunities with perpetrators. But what I know from being a college student, I was having the guys – don’t see a problem with how they conduct themselves in certain instances, the idea of victim-blaming, miseducation that men don’t think that if a women is drunk and she has sex, that’s not considered consensual because she was under the influence and her consciousness and her decision-making was compromised because she was under the influence.
That is not considered consent or whether it’s drinking or smoking, it doesn’t matter but that rape culture especially on a college campus because it is perpetuated so many generations and they almost think it’s a myth. You know that is the word, a lot of college males that I have come across and I’ve had conversations with think that consent is a myth that they know the women better than the woman knows herself.
[0:13:43.9] RW: Okay and can you expand on that. What does that mean?
[0:13:48.4] MB: So when girls telling him no instead of him respecting her know, it is, “Oh she is playing hard to get. Oh she’s just acting like she doesn’t.” And like almost forcing themselves or even to the point of pressuring their partner to have sex with them that is still not consent. Consent is very clear cut. It is yes. Yes, I will. Yes, I want to. If the woman says anything else other than yes then it is not consent. Maybe, no, no is a no. There is a clean cut a lot of times and I don’t want to generalize all of them.
But a lot of them think that they know the woman better or that they have the power or the right to tell the woman what is best for her and that not just sexual assault. That is that toxic masculinity in general where men think that they have this authority or this security to tell a woman what it is that they should do with her body, what is it she should do in life, how she should live, how she should dress. Sexual assault didn’t come out of nowhere and it hasn’t continued for so long ironically it is not a coincidence.
And it all plays a part from the pay get, the glass ceiling, you know women aren’t even been able to get education at one point. Sorry, this kind of goes off a little bit but when we speak about sexual assault and domestic violence in general everyone can be affected but when it comes to black women, everything is much more pronounced. The risk factors that there why did they report, the statistics of how many women are assaulted but aren’t given the services or the help that they need, it is much more pronounced in black women and the black community than it is —
[0:15:42.1] RW: My’Lasia why would you say that? Why do you think these statistics in the statistics are disproportionately higher for black women reporting versus other races of women?
[0:15:54.1] MB: So for one, there is a disconnect between in general, the black community and police, in that authority. There is a huge disconnect and there is a mistrust that leads to black women almost having to choose their race over their gender as if I am more black and I am a woman or I am more woman and I am black and not equally being the same in both. So the intersectionality of being both of color and being a female in a predominantly white male-dominated world, especially a white male-dominated police force that patrols a lot of our communities.
If I see how you’re treating my fellow black man or black brother, now when I am a victim and my perpetrator is a black male, I have to pick well, am I going to put him in harm’s way by calling the police because that is my relationship with police or am I going to keep allowing myself to be harmed because he is black and I am black. So it is like we have to choose either our color or our gender and then when it comes to doctors and the medical field, we’re not believed.
The mortality rate in black women is so high for our country that is supposed to be one of the richest in the world. We have the mortality rate at the same as third world countries who don’t have the same technology and supplies but yet we are dying just as often. Just recently, a big YouTuber was ignored during her labor and delivery and her baby I believed died because she wasn’t listened to and it is the same story that is over and over again. We hear the same thing over and over again and then people wonder why we’re not reporting.
Well, why would I relive or re-traumatize myself by telling you my story, and then you tell me that my story isn’t true? So until we are listened to, until we are believed, until we have a true support system within every sector that is supposed to serve or protect, there will always be that disconnect. Women will still not be reporting to those sectors. Which is like organizations like Harambe is a thing because we had to provide help for ourselves. A lot of the times and just the history of black people in general we’ve always had to, if they won’t do it for us we did it for ourselves.
[0:18:23.7] RW: That is so powerful, when you leave the comment about am I more woman than I am black or am I more black than I am a woman. That is so, so, so powerful that we as black women must make that distinction on a daily basis and that is different from our men, they certainly have their our own ethical dilemmas that they travel this earth with, but we as women, as black women that is certainly a powerful issue that we’re faced with.
I think you just put it so well and I am really blown away by how you expressed that but it is clearly true. So the issue around patriarchy and what that means within a community that’s male-dominated and how sexism plays a role in that but then what does that boil down to at the end of the day? It just boils down to for black women and sexual assault around and how am I going to choose, am I going to be able to choose me when I am a victim, and will I be believed? And that’s ultimately the whole issue around sexual assault is, will I be believed?
[0:19:44.3] MB: Right.
[0:19:45.1] RW: Very, very powerful. As we’re winding down there is something else that we haven’t touched on that you’d like to share with us tonight.
[0:19:53.5] MB: Oh just a couple of facts, mostly for the audience. If you or someone you know has been sexually assaulted, it was previously called the rape kit, it is called the safe kit now but you have five days to get a safe kit done at almost any hospital. Getting a safe kit done does not mean that you are pressing charges or you are not pressing charges against your perpetrator. It is solely for you to have that option if you do or do not want to in the future.
I believe safe kits last up to I think five to 10 years. I don’t have the exact date but it lasts years. You have five days to get it done, so that if it does happen and you do plan on getting a safe kit not to shower. You don’t want to wash away any evidence but if you did shower if you still have the clothes or the underwear that you wore that night to put it in a zip lock bag and take it with you.
And if you are in a domestic violence situation and you don’t know where to go or how to get out. Some tips are to pack a bag even if it has just two to three nights’ worth of clothing, copies of your birth certificate, copies of your license, any kind of medical information, or immunizations for your children. If you can get a prepaid or track phone, that is untraceable for your abuser, a prepaid credit card just to throw in a bag and leave whether on a trunk of your car or at a friend’s house or I know a lot of employers even if you just tell them what is going on, they will allow you to leave the bag at work.
So that when you are ready to leave, you have something to take with you. Working in the shelter, a lot of the women because it was a crisis situation they only had what was on their backs and just having the extra change of clothes, not having to worry about, “Well, what am I going to wear?” Just eases the pressure a lot more.
[0:21:47.0] RW: That’s a wonderful information and again, this especially with both of those the safe kit for sexual assault victims, that they know that I can’t imagine what people are going through when something like that occurs in their lives. But to know that you don’t have to make a decision on how prosecutions and I just have to make a decision about having the evidence available should you choose to prosecute in the future.
And that can possibly ease a person’s mind because it is just overwhelming the amount of trauma and just thoughts that are running through their head at that time and then for domestic violence victim, what most likely is going through that trauma on an ongoing basis a little of a long term basis but to give themselves a chance to get away from the situation with some tools to start over and those documents will be so important, having that untraceable phone is so important.
Because if you don’t know, you definitely can be traced through your phone, people can track you through your phone whether you are aware of it or not and having those documents, I’ve heard of cases where extreme — where the partner knows where those documents are and they can’t really take them away but they can make copies of the document and put the original back. So it is undetected until they’re ready to use that. So having those safeguards in place because there is so many on their circumstances that that impact people.
So I appreciate your sharing that information with us tonight. And we just want to thank you, My’Lasia. You’ve been a wealth of information for us tonight and you have such a warm and welcoming spirit. We are so happy I’ve had you on this tonight and we hopefully that you can come back again for another chat with us, that would be great. So thank you again for coming in, good night.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:24:13.1] RW: Thanks for joining We Hear You Podcast with our host, Rose Williams, from Harambe Social Services, a grassroots organization in South Jersey. Harambe is Swahili for pulling together in unity. We use the principles of the Nguzo Saba in all of our services to educate communities about domestic violence and sexual assault. Our primary focus is to provide counseling services to victims and survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault.
If you or someone you know needs to talk to us, please call 609-225-6936. Again, that number is 609-225-6936. Our counseling services are free of charge. Be sure to follow Harambe Social Services on Instagram and Facebook. We would love to hear your feedback about tonight's focus. Tell a family member and friend about the show. You can help us get the word out. Go to buzzsprout.com to make a review. Thank you. Be safe. Be well.
[END]