Men have a vital role to play as anti-domestic violence advocates, and engaging with men
remains an important component of the movement to end violence against women. Today’s
guest is Reverend Frank Morris, an ordained Baptist Minister and a well-known Pastor of
Biblical Counseling at Ocean Avenue Baptist Church in Jersey City. He has spent the majority of his career doing whatever it takes to immerse himself in the subject of domestic violence, advocate an end to violence against women, and act as a role-model in the community to his fellow man. He is committed to promoting and encouraging clergy and congregational awareness in how to support victims. In this episode, Reverend Frank shares his experience and what inspired him to work in domestic violence, his early experience in the ministry, and what he believes men’s role to be as domestic violence advocates. Make sure to tune in to this episode!
Frank Morris on Facebook
New Jersey Coalition to End Domestic Violence
Men have a vital role to play as anti-domestic violence advocates, and engaging with men
remains an important component of the movement to end violence against women. Today’s
guest is Reverend Frank Morris, an ordained Baptist Minister and a well-known Pastor of
Biblical Counseling at Ocean Avenue Baptist Church in Jersey City. He has spent the majority of his career doing whatever it takes to immerse himself in the subject of domestic violence, advocate an end to violence against women, and act as a role-model in the community to his fellow man. He is committed to promoting and encouraging clergy and congregational awareness in how to support victims. In this episode, Reverend Frank shares his experience and what inspired him to work in domestic violence, his early experience in the ministry, and what he believes men’s role to be as domestic violence advocates. Make sure to tune in to this episode!
Frank Morris on Facebook
New Jersey Coalition to End Domestic Violence
EPISODE 08
[INTRO]
[00:00:04] RW: Welcome to this episode of We Hear You, from Harambe Social Services in South Jersey. We Hear You is designed to give a voice to victims and survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault. This forum is for survivors and their allies to discuss issues that impact them and their families, as well as to educate communities.
In the coming segments, we will hear from survivors. They will tell us their stories and what they would like for us to know. As allies, we want to hear how we can support them.
[EPISODE]
[00:00:46] RW: Welcome to this episode of We Hear You, our new podcast. Today’s special guest is Reverend Frank Morris from the Ocean Avenue Baptist Church, where he is a pastor of biblical counseling. He's a caring and devoted counselor and provides confidential counseling to individuals, couples, and to families. He is committed to his belief that the bible is the standard for changes and that those changes please God. He is confident that the bible has all the necessary information for life and for godliness. He is, of course, also has had a wealth of education and I’m not going to go through all of that, but I will share with you that he is also an acknowledged domestic violence advocate, who is committed to ending violence against women, promoting and encouraging clergy and congregational awareness in how to support victims. Welcome to our podcast.
[00:02:04] FM: Thank you for having me. Glad to be here.
[00:02:07] RW: So glad to have you. I wanted to, right off the bat, just ask you to share with our audience how you got interested in working in domestic violence?
[00:02:21] FM: Right. Well, I was basically born into the issue. I grew up in a domestically violent home. I pretty much to me was normalized behavior is what I knew, what I grew up around. We grew up in the projects, so not that it's exclusive to the projects, but everybody around me pretty much was dealing with the same similar lifestyle; weekend drunkenness or beat downs, that type of thing.
What ultimately, I think, impacted me, I lost my mom when I was 18-years-old. I had for the first time, and my mom was bored, from the first time I left home for the Air Force, and my dad had gotten a new car, his first car that I’ve known in the family, and just came in one night, pretty tore up, drunk, and decided that they were going to woke up and we're going out partying. That fatal night, he ran into a stoop of the brownstone with the car. My mother was propelled out the windshield and she never survived that.
Dad just didn't have a lot of introspection. My brothers had to deal with it live, but I was away, so that never really got back home. Then I started looking at myself and how I was living. Though I wasn't a violent guy towards women, I was roundly told by some women friends of mine, “Yeah, but you act out in other ways.”
It's just a combination of things and ultimately, when I answered my call to ministry, one of my big hurdles was I was mad with God, and I was definitely upset with my father. Then at some point, he converted and I had to forgive him. That was a challenge for me. They did two things for me and made my ministry real, because the bible tells us if someone repents, you are to forgive them. That wasn't the easiest thing for me to do. I realized that a lot of people needed the help. I just decided that that was something I wanted to do, is to get involved.
[00:04:37] RW: It really hits home for you. It was a personal experience in your personal experiences, because it sounds like it was pretty much your whole young adult life.
[00:04:47] FM: Yeah, I was the oldest.
[00:04:50] RW: Yeah. It was very personal for you. As you said, it had become the norm for you, because it not only was it in your home, but in your community, you felt many families going through the similar thing.
[00:05:05] FM: Yes, yes.
[00:05:06] RW: With knowing all of that and it took a while before you got into actually to the domestic violence part of it, but you did get into ministry. With getting into ministry, where along that continuum did you begin talking about domestic violence, or at least expressing an interest before?
[00:05:32] FM: Interesting question. As what we call a licentiate young minister, I was blessed to be around some very influential civil rights-connected, Dr. King-connected folks, and it was very impressive for me to be in that company. I began to hear things. As a young man, I guess, it's with all men, I became intimidated, because my ideas was not the idea of the day, in terms of how women should be treated. No one actually came out and said it, but I knew that I needed to watch what I said, be aware of what I was saying. That bothered me, because it wasn't who I was.
Again, I’m not a spring chicken, so I’m going back to days when that thing was so blatant. A matter of fact, women were not allowed to preach at all. I mean, now it's like, I’m not saying this is what it should be, but going back in the 60s, I knew one female preacher, actually two. One of my laments was that they're making these women angry. Therefore, they lose their ability to preach the gospel, because it becomes something else. I saw it as becoming a militant scene.
There's so much struggle to be heard, that when they got the platform, there was a lot of anger there. I saw that. It was difficult for me. I saw and heard things that I thought were off, disrespectful to woman, but it was the tenor of the day. Not only in around clergy, but in the community, in the world. That's the way it was.
[00:07:13] RW: Difficult time. Again, for so often, certainly before then, but certainly in the 50s and 60s, even though we were coming into what they called this feminist revolution, they were beginning to be more acceptance of women in leadership roles, but not really.
[00:07:36] FM: Right. They talked about it.
[00:07:38] RW: Yeah, it was being talked about. We know in the civil rights movement for sure, that there were clear examples of women who were put to the back burner and asked to do the kitchen work, or the secretarial work, and not be allowed to be on the forefront. That was definitely right.
[00:08:01] FM: If I might add, I think something that unnerved me a lot was that there were so many men who were unequipped, educationally, to do the job, but they managed to be put in place. With many of the sisters that I knew that is inspired and felt called, I mean, they had degrees all over the place. They pretty much told me, think about teaching Sunday school.
[00:08:31] RW: Yeah, that is disrespectful. Again, the thing is there's something about you, because this is prior to your training patriarchy, and male sexism, and all of those things that you learned later formally. Already in your mind had already adopted those principles, that that ain't right. You already knew that in your spirit. It is very interesting that that led you along the way, but you were already in that mindset of something else needs to happen, but you weren't maybe not sure at that point what – yeah.
I know, eventually you did. You have gotten lots of education around domestic violence. You want to talk to us a little bit about your formal education in domestic violence, and where you've got training?
[00:09:36] FM: Well, after my undergrad work, I attended Trinity College Seminary in Indiana. They offered biblical counsel and they gave me – well, I don't know what they gave to me, but I began to write exclusively about the message that nobody else was really writing about that. I got a little pushback only in terms of as a collective, because they were in denial about what really was real. There became a question of do I pass, or do I continue to blow this trumpet? I mean, so I got a lot of pushback in that way.
In all fairness, they tolerated me. Because that's all I would write about, because that's what was in my spirit. I began to challenge ideas and scripture, because it's not as complicated as people make it to be. God is the God of love. Let me say this, this hangs with me to this very day. There's a lot of Adam/Eve shame type thing that goes on in Christianity. The problem is the spirit revealed to me that, “Hey, if Adam, who was there and present, didn't protect Eve, but went along with whatever” – she was definitely deceived, there's no denial about it. Then from the vantage point of where we are today, if Jesus Christ, 1st Corinthians 5:17 said, “If any man is in Christ, he's a new creature.” All things have passed away. All things have come new.
I asked the professor, "So what is it? The blood wasn't good enough for Eve? Because Adam says the word, so why are you always going back to she's a little lower, because she was deceived?” It didn't lock in for me. I was a troublemaker. That really got to me. I think that people around me were and they always appreciated, to at least hear the argument that I was bringing forth.
[00:11:46] RW: It was going against your brain, because let's face it, and you've already said, it's a very patriarchal institution in church. Well, not only the Christian church.
[00:11:56] FM: Oh, no. It’s across the board.
[00:11:58] RW: Right. Islam, Muslim.
[00:12:00] FM: Judaism.
[00:12:02] RW: Jewish. They're all patriarchal systems. Of course, now that we're in 2020, they have become some things have been relaxed to to some degree, but not fully. We'll have some Jewish Rabbis, now there's some – Christians of course, have some ministers and some pastors, but not the Muslims. Of course, I know and that I don't think there's any –
[00:12:32] FM: I haven’t seen it yet. It's not happening. It’s not happening.
[00:12:38] RW: You have this way of thinking that the male is the dominant person, especially in a relationship. Therefore, what you were saying was definitely not fitting –
[00:12:53] FM: It wasn't true. I had strong women. My mom was a homemaker. She was proud of it. She just made things happen. I have a sermon, that’s some old chair and I relate that to how Christ takes care of us and delivers us from near destruction, because my mom found a chair and called, told me to go get the chair. That was so embarrassing in my life. I snuck out there and got that chair. Then when she got to working on it, people come by and said, “Oh, my. The Morrises are stepping up. Look, they got a new chair.” They said, “You all done well.”
[00:13:30] RW: Furniture.
[00:13:31] FM: Yeah. Yeah. My grandmother was a beautician. She's from Barbados. She had two beauty parlors, and so on and so forth through the family. Women who were not afraid to step up, speak their mind. That wasn't unique to me. What my conflict was was this imbalance between people who just want to usurp authority, because, “Hey, I’m the man. That's it.” That was a problem for me.
[00:13:58] RW: That's clearly, we’re so glad that that was an irritant for you, and that you didn't let go of it. You kept going until you got to the people that you needed to be with, who had the same ideology. That was part of going to the New Jersey Coalition, to end domestic violence? Is that where –
[00:14:21] FM: Oh, yeah. Let me not sound like Mr. Good, okay, because I was – all of this time, I’m struggling with that. I’ve got my own sins going on, my own sense of superiority, whatever. I want to be clear about that. There's always this battle going on within myself, seeing where I need to be and then struggling where I actually was.
[00:14:47] RW: That's honest.
[00:14:49] FM: Yeah. Honesty is the reality. What happened for me, actually with the Coalition about the woman, I met her a sister in – she’s in Newark and she had a YWCA group and she wanted some men to break this in. She knew Tony Porter from A CALL TO MEN. Her name was Lynn, actually. Lynn, at some point she said, “Well, my director want people from the community.” We were coming down from Jersey City. We kept coming. We took the training and everything and she impressed upon me, or maybe Tony, somewhere along the line A CALL TO MEN. Everybody has their own way of looking at the problem.
One thing I pulled away from that, if I need to learn from women, if I’m to learn about women, I need to learn from women, not somebody who knows that – Tony was great, but I knew I had to immerse myself, and so that I went to the Y. I came down at that time, you were down at the Coalition. Those were some tough classes, Dr. West was teaching the classes I went to.
[00:15:57] RW: Tracy West?
[00:15:58] FM: I believe her name was Tracy West. Yeah.
[00:16:01] RW: She is also in ministry, I believe.
[00:16:04] FM: There’s two Wests? What are those? The CJ –
[00:16:06] RW: There’s a Tracy West, a professor and also, I believe she has ministry, also, background as well.
[00:16:15] FM: Okay. Right. Nonetheless, those were the times when I felt like giving up first, because Tracy was hard on me. Like, what am I doing here? At first, I was a little indignant, like, “Hey I am trying.” Didn’t have and mean it like this, but hey, “I’m trying to help you. I mean, why are you all beating up me? I’m one of the good guys.”
[00:16:35] FM: They were like, “Well, we ain’t hearing that.” That helped me to understand what I look like to them, and I had to earn their trust. It doesn't just because, I’m a man, I’m taking the class. I learned a lot from women, a lot.
[00:16:49] RW: In that process, yeah, you learned a lot, but again, the training, which is so all-encompassing past you, you have to even, as a woman, you have to really look at yourself. It's not about, “Oh, I’m going to learn how to speak Spanish.” It's not in intellectual. You have to go into your spirit as we've been saying. You have to examine and unpack your feelings about, what is this thing called patriarchy? How do you fit in it, even as a man or as a woman? How do you fit in it? What is sexism and how do you fit into it? It forces you to really look at yourself. It sounds like, again, you were holding on.
[00:17:43] FM: All this time. My first marriage ended in divorce. I didn't want to contest it, because I knew all of the missteps I had taken, and neglect, and that sort of thing. Now I’ve been married 37 years to my wife, Phyllis. [inaudible 0:18:01] and pretty good friends at that, but they know that there was a transformation happening there. I thank God that I survived that and that my family is very much intact, my kids and all things.
The point I do want to make for anyone out there who’s listening about mistakes and falling into traps is always, always make it your point to confess to your children who you are and what you did, because you can't move in this work and be a liar at the same. It just is not going to work. I’ve always been forefront. They know. They know. They're not going hear nothing, unless I go out and do something crazy tonight, they know.
They know who I am. They know what I believe. They know where I have stumbled, where I felt, where I got up. They got that. So that I can tell them, this is what's right and that's not right. They listen, because they know me.
[00:18:58] RW: That really leads to another question that I had about why you think it's important for men to do domestic violence work, and work related to sexual assault. Why do you think that's important?
[00:19:13] FM: We got to step out of this bubble that we’re in. I mean, someone once said –
[00:19:17] RW: In a bubble.
[00:19:19] FM: Yeah. We're not the best thing since sliced bread and we need to get over that, because that's what – and it's particularly something for a man of color. I just want to bring this up. Knowing something about being on the short end of the stick, and being oppressed, and turn around and do the same thing to any woman of any color. I mean, not even justifying this based on color, but I’m saying it's particularly – whether you have some experience of what that feels like.
I think that for men, it's being able to open our eyes, and one of the pastors that I know. We did some training. One day, I came out of the training with him and I told him. I said, “What do you think?” He said to me, “You know what? I need to go home and apologize to my wife.” I never forgot that, because that was like, wow, which told me some light bulbs went on. That's most, if we would look at it and when I counseled couples, especially pre-marital, I said to them, "This is like a corporation. This is your partner.” You all need to be – if you're in a certain way, then be there together. It's like a boxer in the ring. When you're out there fighting in the battle of life then you fall back to your quarter, you don't want to get hit over there with a bucket. You want to be refreshed. You want to be encouraged to go back into battle.
I try to get couples to see the unity, the marriage power is about becoming one, a mutual submission to one another. As the bible says, “Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church.” Christ served us. My wife and I right now, we try to work on out-serving one another and we enjoy doing that. Does that make sense?
[00:21:07] RW: It makes a lot of sense. It makes a lot of sense. Having men such as yourself out there with women, because we know that it's predominantly women who are stepping up in this fight for this last 30 years that it's been formalized. Men now, I’d say within the last 10 years, maybe even 15 years, men are coming more to the forefront, but not where they need to be. When I do talk to someone such as yourself, I do always ask that. It's like, well, how do you talk to other men about getting involved and being part of the fight, because it's really so much about redirecting that thinking and that mindset, that superiority.
[00:22:06] FM: I think a big part of this is acceptance. Most men who are – particularly, I’m talking in a church context, less so with those who are not in the church, but most men who are trying to make that life change and transitioning, there's an element of loneliness there, because you can't hang out with Joe and Jimmy and everybody else, because you're trying to change. With that change, they need to know that they will be held accountable.
If I know that, or I can hear things you're saying, if I’m supposed to believe you or helping you, I cannot allow you to say – some guys will say, “You need to get your chick in order,” or, “Put your woman in check.” I said, “Oh, oh. What does that mean?” If you don't stop it right there, then you've given – you've accredited the comment. I remember walking downtown Brooklyn when I was working. I was with this deacon, we were coming out of the bible study for lunch. This girl walks by and she's got on some short dress or whatever, which – and he just did something like, “Oh, look at that.” I said, “Whoa!” I said, “Brother. I don't need that. You know where you coming from now. I was not trying to – well, yeah. Maybe I wasn't. Yeah, I’m definitely – I’m above that, but you ain't helping me.”
One is that he’s a married man. “Oh, are you serious?” I said, “I’m very serious.” From that day on, I don't know if he changed his behavior, but he's definitely changed it around me, because I didn't think – I thought it was so immature of him. I knew he was the leader in his church. I just think, we cannot be accepting of anything. We have to have a higher standard if we are to lead.
[00:24:03] RW: Now again, it's not just talking the talk, but walking the walk. As you say, with that may be a small thing, but it's really a big thing, because you cannot just merely appear at workshops and have handouts and be able to expound on all the principles, and yet in your daily life, men being disrespectful to women right in front of your face, whether it's a joke, whether it's [inaudible 00:24:34], or coming to say what they did to their wife, or girlfriend, because they got out of line. Don't say anything, you act as if that was perfectly okay.
I think that is Tony Porter's expression about the well-meaning men. Well-meaning men are in the majority. However, if you are a well-meaning man who says nothing, and allows women to be disrespected, or abused, or violated in any way by your silence, you're not better than the folks that are doing the harm.
[00:25:21] FM: I agree. I agree 100%. That to me, that’s – as I’ve sensed that in myself, I could actually testify that I’ve seen the growth in myself as I began to challenge it more and more. There were things I let slide, but increasingly there was no sliding. We able to just go up to someone that says, “The sister isn't a sex object, man. Why don't you stop? What's wrong with you?” That grows me. Forget about you. That reaffirms from me what I see, and how I’m living, and how I want to bring you up to that standard, because once you go in that slippery slope for living the double life, the bible says, “Men are inventors of evil.” I mean, we will create some stuff, this evil. Those are the things that to me, make a difference.
If you know, it's a gang mentality. I remember in the military one night, I used to work at the beer garden and some guys got drunk and they was upset with me about something. They attacked me on my way home in the snow, about six marines or something like that. I was in the Air Force. I was right near my back, all my help was right in there, but they couldn't hear me, couldn't hear me. These people, they had chains. They’re beating me, trying to kill me.
The next morning, I found one of the guys, met him in the post office and it was a one way in, one way out. I just said, “Jesus, just, let me just let it go,” cause that's how stuff escalates forever and ever. Retaliation. When people are together, and no one will stand up and speak truth, anything will happen. Anything. Including rape, and all the other atrocities that are projected upon women, because people failed to speak up.
[00:27:13] RW: Yes. That is just so true. The thing is, again, about men stepping up to speak to other men, this is a very different thing, a peer-to-peer interaction that women cannot do. I mean, do what we do, but peer-to-peer situation in my opinion, that makes the difference. That makes a major difference. I’m so grateful to see men coming forward and I do feel we need you. I think it's very important for men to be onboard and the young men, or generationally the younger men coming in, but we need the older men as well, because we have the older men who are still carrying these old beliefs.
The young men about some of this thing, some of these beliefs that they have that are so outdated, then they're trying to teach young fellas 13, 14, these sexist ideas. It's horrible. It's absolutely insane.
[00:28:24] FM: I agree. I agree.
[00:28:26] RW: Well, so the young people do need you and others that are like you to come forward, whether it's just in general, but certainly you are a man of the church and you have your ministry. So important. Again, because we know, unfortunately, there are men in the church, they're really having some of these antiquated ideas as well. Christianity doesn't always translate to respecting the women and that's unfortunate. I’m very happy to know that you are doing what you do. I cannot let you leave without you talking about your book. Women, Why Are You Weeping? Is that correct?
[00:29:12] FM: Yeah. Yeah. Women, Why Are You Weeping?
[00:29:16] RW: Yes. Tell us a little bit about your book.
[00:29:19] FM: Well, I sat in this very room crying, it took me six years to do. Six years.
[00:29:27] RW: Oh, wow. It's quite – writing a book. I mean, I’ve never written one, so I just can't even imagine.
[00:29:35] FM: There was a scripture that's very familiar that really sparked it all for me, is that, I looked at my life and I thought about, as I did all the trainings and everything, it just hit me like this. I got to be able to write something, so that the men would see the women in a different light. The scripture from John 20: 11-15, I’m just going to read it. It said, “But Mary stood weeping outside the tomb, and as she wept, she stooped to look into the tomb, she saw two angels in white sitting where the body of Jesus had lain, one at the head and one at the feet. They said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping?” She said to them, “They have taken away my Lord and I do not know what they have laid him.” Having said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing, but she did not know it was Jesus. Jesus said there, “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you’re seeking?” Supposing him to be the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away.”
Now that verse, I’ve read that verse and I love John and the whole gospel of resurrection, but it hit me like a ton of bricks, that I talk about that there's a woman sitting in the pews where you worship, sometimes she arrives well ahead of time before service starts. As we assemble weekly seeking the lord's phrase on our worship experiences, give some thought to the idea that someone is in your midst, because of their plight they are not experienced as God as many of us are.
They are in your place of worship seeking him. They're looking for Jesus, and many of them are not finding him. I want to pass this. This was the theme I tried to run through the book of 80% of the church is women. 80% of the church is women. If we want to believe that these are happy campers, we are very misguided. We need to ask the question, women, why are you weeping? They know what the problem is. We need to examine what are we doing as representatives of Christ, okay.
The response in scripture is clear. They've taken my lord and I don't know where they laid him. He suddenly end up in here at your church. That was the seed for this and I tried to put everything in the world in here, to help pastors see where the seminaries are falling down. There's no serious counseling. There's no serious conversations in seminaries about this issue. You get what's equivalent to an elective class in pastoral counseling, includes everything, boom, that's it.
When you become a pastor, the one thing you need to do more anything else to be able to talk and comfort people and give them guidance. The other thing I attempt to do in this book is to give pastors and clergy resources, stop them from being afraid to contacting Harambe House, or Women Rising, or whatever agency. Get help. You don't know it all. You're ill-equipped. You don’t even know what you're talking about.
We need to stop sending women somewhere off the crane, or believe that there's some redemptive suffering in them allowing this man to abuse them, and that Christ is going to reward you by and by, all of that. Women, Why Are You Weeping? For any pastors, of course you're listening, please pick up a case. Have a bible study and put. That's what the book is about. I just wonder why we've been examining the church's response to domestic violence. That's the book.
[00:33:22] RW: Now where could somebody purchase that, because we have different people from different areas who will be hearing this?
[00:33:29] FM: They can go to Amazon, Barnes and Noble. They can go to www.whyareyouweeping.com.
[00:33:39] RW: Awesome.
[00:33:40] FM: To purchase it.
[00:33:42] RW: That's wonderful. That is excellent. Well, the other thing that I want to mention is that somewhere, someone is in their room tonight and hearing this podcast and we're hoping that you have heard our guests speak and you'll hear what I’m saying, but we want you to know that we hear you. We hear you, even though you may not believe that somebody is listening to you, or that what you're saying is valid and people are not believing you. At Harambe Social Services, you can give us a call at 609-225-6936.
We are here to listen to you, give you emotional support. Those services are free of charge. We do want you to give us a call. We are in the South Jersey area in the northeast, so hopefully that you could check in with us. The phone call, of course, you could call, and we do video conferencing, so it's not necessary for you to come in. We can talk to you right over the phone. Give us a call, 609-225-6936. That’s Harambe Social Services. Reverend Morris, I just want to thank you so much.
[00:35:19] FM: Thank you.
[00:35:20] RW: Our special guest this – I think, actually went in a little bit of a direction I wasn't thinking of, but I like the way our interview went tonight. I learned something new about you.
[00:35:31] FM: Okay.
[00:35:33] RW: Thank you so much for coming on.
[00:35:36] FM: Thank you for having me.
[00:35:37] RW: You keep doing the work that you're doing. You are definitely a godsend and God bless you.
[00:35:44] FM: God bless you. Keep me in your prayers.
[00:35:46] RW: I will do that. Good night.
[END OF EPISODE]
[00:35:51] RW: Thanks for joining We Hear You Podcast with our host, Rose Williams from Harambe Social Services, a grassroots organization in South Jersey. Harambe is Swahili for pulling together in unity. We use the principles of the Ingusa Saba in all of our services, to educate communities about domestic violence and sexual assault.
Our primary focus is to provide counseling services to victims and survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault. If you or someone you know needs to talk to us, please call 609-225-6936. Again, that number is 609-225-6936. Our counseling services are free of charge.
Be sure to follow Harambe Social Services on Instagram and Facebook. We would love to hear your feedback about tonight's focus. Tell a family member and a friend about the show. You can help us get the word out and go to buzzsprout.com to make a review.
Thank you. Be safe. Be well.
[END]