Sexual assault encompasses a wide range of violent or degrading acts, and it’s not just the
boogeyman in the alley that is the perpetrator. It can be someone you know, it can be someone you’re dating and, because of misinformation and coercion, there are often blurred lines. Today’s guest is Daunielle Munir, who works with the Center for Family Services in New Jersey, where she is the Program Coordinator of the sexual assault program, SERV, which stands for Services Empowering the Rights of Victims. In this episode, she explains the elements of control in violent acts, reiterates the importance of consent, and why victims sometimes can’t verbalize the word no. She also offers her support to victims, stating that sexual assault is never the victim’s fault, and encourages us to teach our children to trust their feelings to know when they are uncomfortable. Most importantly, she urges us to break the stigma, have the difficult conversations, and believe victims, so please tune in for some necessary education on the dynamics of sexual assault. It may be helpful for you or for someone you know.
Center for Family Services on Facebook
The Conversation
Sexual assault encompasses a wide range of violent or degrading acts, and it’s not just the
boogeyman in the alley that is the perpetrator. It can be someone you know, it can be someone you’re dating and, because of misinformation and coercion, there are often blurred lines. Today’s guest is Daunielle Munir, who works with the Center for Family Services in New Jersey, where she is the Program Coordinator of the sexual assault program, SERV, which stands for Services Empowering the Rights of Victims. In this episode, she explains the elements of control in violent acts, reiterates the importance of consent, and why victims sometimes can’t verbalize the word no. She also offers her support to victims, stating that sexual assault is never the victim’s fault, and encourages us to teach our children to trust their feelings to know when they are uncomfortable. Most importantly, she urges us to break the stigma, have the difficult conversations, and believe victims, so please tune in for some necessary education on the dynamics of sexual assault. It may be helpful for you or for someone you know.
Center for Family Services on Facebook
The Conversation
EPISODE 09
[INTRO]
[00:00:04] RW: Welcome to this episode of We Hear You, from Harambe Social Services in South Jersey. We Hear You is designed to give a voice to victims and survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault. This forum is for survivors and their allies to discuss issues that impact them and their families, as well as to educate communities.
In the coming segments, we will hear from survivors. They will tell us their stories and what they would like for us to know. As allies, we want to hear how we can support them.
[EPISODE]
[00:00:46] RW: Welcome to the show tonight. Tonight, our special guest is Daunielle Munir. Am I pronouncing it correctly, Daunielle?
[00:00:54] DM: Yes. That is correct.
[00:00:55] RW: That's wonderful. Daunielle Munir is with the Center for Family Services here in New Jersey, which she is the Director of the Sexual Assault Program. I’m going to let her expand on that a little bit to give you her exact title. Welcome Daunielle.
[00:01:19] DM: Thank you, Rose. Thank you for having me. As Rose stated, my name is Daunielle Munir. I do work with the Center for Family Services SERV Program, which is Services Empowering the Rights of Victims. We are the sexual assault advocacy program for Camden, Gloucester, and Cumberland Counties in New Jersey, but we also provide domestic violence DV services in Cumberland and Gloucester counties. My role with the program, I am the Program Coordinator in the Camden County office and we're located in Camden City. I’m just happy to be here tonight.
[00:01:55] RW: Oh, we're certainly happy to have you, because we know you bring a wealth of information. Our podcast is new, but one of the things that we're trying to do is reach out to the community with information about sexual assault and domestic violence. We're just believing that it's important that some of the myths get dispelled, and some of the taboos, that are often out there about domestic violence and sexual assault, are at least discussed. We're hoping that the podcast will be a place where folks can do that. We are so grateful that you were able to come on tonight.
[00:02:40] DM: I appreciate that. Whatever information I can share, because it is often a delicate topic and oftentimes, like you said, it's that taboo topic that no one really wants to talk about. We clearly know, it exists unfortunately, in our communities and especially communities of color. It's always been the hidden family secret that no one wants to discuss. We understand that it is the sensitive topic but, hopefully, I’ll be able to shed some light and maybe ease some questions, or anything that people may have, and hopefully be of service.
[00:03:20] RW: Before we get in depth into the topic, tell me a little bit more about yourself. How did you get involved with working in intervention partner violence, because I think you've done a little bit of both, but just tell us how you got involved?
[00:03:36] DM: It's odd, but it all coincides and it pretty much came full circle for me. I was actually a co-ed fitness instructor. Basically, I taught a college gym class. It was aerobics, weight training, and health and wellness, and all those things for a community college, Camden County Community College. I did that for about 18 years. In the interim of that, I would often have classes – we would just have a roundtable after class and sit around it. Mostly, it was women, but I did have some males that participated in the class. It was a little elective that they could take, easy course.
What I found was that I would have sometimes students that would not pass, because they took so much time that they had to be away from class. Oftentimes, unfortunately, one or two would come in with a bruise, or a black eye. We would sit around and talk about relationships. It started there, because I felt there was a need to have that peace and to be able to connect women and some men to services that they didn't know that even existed. It started there and I wind up becoming a volunteer with the SERV Program. As I became a volunteer, a position opened up to be an RA, which was the first in line of defense. They're the ones that handled the phone calls and they get the emergency calls and they dispatch volunteers. I started there and the rest is history. I just worked my way up the ranks pretty much.
I’ve been there now going on nine years. Yeah, it's been the most rewarding work I have ever done, but it's also the most grueling and it can be emotionally draining work also. It came full circle for me, because I realized that I was able to connect that link. When I see, or hear someone that needs services, I’m able to connect those dots, or at least be able to give a listening ear, because sometimes people don't always want you to solve their problem, or they don't want you to solve their problems, but they want to be heard.
If you could give a referral as to, “Hey, when you're ready, this is available to you. Or, I may be able to be that bridge that can cause you into that piece of healing that we sometimes need.” That's my story. That’s how it happened for me.
[00:06:15] RW: That’s awesome. That is an awesome story. So often, we know people are working at certain jobs, but this type of work really is more than a job. You have to have a passion for it and I’ve been fascinated to know how people became involved with doing this line of work. I also heard you say that people just want to be heard. That's the name of our podcast is We Hear You, because very often, people are not only not heard if they tell their story, they're not believed, or they believe they will not be believed, so they just don't bother telling their story. It was so important that you were there and have been able to do this now for nine years.
At the center, you do a lot of the training there. That's one of the things you do. I had an opportunity to actually attend one of your trainings recently. You talked a lot about the historical backdrop for Black women, African-American women, who have historically been victimized by rape. Do you want to talk a little bit about that?
[00:07:33] DM: Sure. Unfortunately, okay, I can almost be sure that this has impacted someone's family, if not every family, every other family. Historically, especially with African-American, or women of color, we often have that again, as that secret that it may not have impacted me, but I know of a family member who it has. Or I know of distant cousins, or there's always that family secret of, hey, this occurred. We've had generations of just saying that, “Well, it happened, but they got over it, or get over it, or we try to pacify it, we try to put a band-aid over it. We try to make excuses for it.”
It tends to perpetuate in families. It tends to be generational, without the intent of it happening. We've had so many cases where we've had a parent will bring their child in for services and then I get to have a side conversation with the parent and the parent discloses that, well, yeah, they've had an incident of assault, whether it's domestic violence, or sexual violence, oftentimes those two roads connect, and where there's one, there is often the other. We're not always able to know what does this fall under, what does this fall under.
Again, oftentimes, those roads connect. Without getting the proper care, and a proper healing, and to be able to say that what happened to you, it happened to you. It was nothing that you did that created that situation. All the ownership of the assault or perpetration was on the perpetrator, not on the survivor, not on the person who was assaulted. Oftentimes, because we don't have those conversations, and because, even as much as our families want to help, they don't know how to help, and they don't have the resources in place to be able to say, “Here is something. Maybe you should go talk to someone. Maybe you should seek counseling.”
Because counseling in our culture is a new thing, even though we know that, plenty of times, we believe that counseling and all those things, but that's oftentimes been something that we use it, “Oh, we'll resolve it in our religious organization,” and that's fine, but that's not always the answer, because there's sometimes the other things that need to take place. Or oftentimes, what happens in this house, stays in this house. Services are never sought, even with that. Or you're crazy, sometimes you – “What? Counseling? What's wrong with you?” Nothing. You just may need somebody to talk to. It doesn't mean that something's wrong with you. It just means that something may have happened to you and you need services. You need to talk to someone. You need to have that person reiterate to you that it wasn't your fault. It may be just learning how to navigate that space, learning how to deal with triggers that may come up.
Some people don't get triggered for years and something happens and then all of a sudden, the memory floods back and they don't know what to do with those memories. They don't know what to do with those emotions. Having the space to be able to access services and to be able to offer services is a big thing. That's one of the things I love about training, because I feel I’m training multiple people to be able to – if you connect with one person, then that's one more person that's getting helped, or needed services.
[00:11:15] RW: You covered a couple of points in that statement. One of the points that I’m picking up from you is that just is often seen as a sexual crime, but it's not so much a sexual crime, but it's a crime of power. It's a power dynamic. Can you tell us a little more about that?
[00:11:34] DM: Yes. Oftentimes, because we live in a society that everything is hyper-sexualized to sell a product, they have scarily clad women or whatever, our thought is that, “Oh, well because she's dressed this way, or because she's in this certain space at this particular time, that oh, it must have been something that she did,” because that's what's projected. We're bombarded with that constantly, that it's the woman's fault. Because she had this on her, because she did this, or because he was here, or whatever, that they must have done something wrong. That's not the case.
Like you said, sexual assault, domestic violence, any of these violent acts are about control. It has absolutely nothing to do with oh, that's that love and that's the desire. It's about control. It is about perpetrating an act on somebody forcefully. A lot of times, again, because that's what we see on television, and you have the movies, and the media that says, “Well, yeah. They said no, but they really meant yes.” No. That line is so blurred.
Oftentimes, when I do these presentations to college students, and I like to get that group, because they're in the cusp of just starting. Actually, I want to get them a little bit earlier, but colleges are more apt to have us come in and have these frank talks to students. Oftentimes, that conversation is had, “Well, what if she comes back to my house at a certain time? What did she expect?” I’m like, “Well, maybe she expected what you said it was going to be to have a conversation.” Oftentimes, if you're not upfront about – when perpetrators are trying to perpetrate, they will do those things and say those things to manipulate the situation.
You're going into it trusting the person, because they've shown pretty much the representative to say, “Oh, yes. I’m this nice person. I just want to get to know you. I’m just enjoying the evening.” Oftentimes, you think that they're being genuine and they're not. It often looks like that.
[00:13:56] RW: Yeah. The thing about that is how we're still going at this in 2020? Still feeling men and women – we have such different understandings of what the “rules” are, and men still feel as though they need to manipulate you in order to have sex with you, instead of just saying, “You want to have sex?” She'll say yeah, or she'll say no. It becomes this death deception and then there's guilt and there’s shame. It gets crazy.
[00:14:31] DM: Yes. When you talk to some of the younger, and I can say that yes, sexual assault happens to men and women. I’m just going to focus on the young men right now. Oftentimes, when I’m having a conversation with them and I’m like, “We need to talk about consent.” I’m like, “You should be getting consent for every act that takes place.” They're like, “What? I know what I’m doing.” I’m like, “Here's the thing,” and this is my question that I often pose to them, “If you're that good, then you would want to know that that person is responding to what you're saying, or what you're doing and they are enjoying what you're saying and what you're doing. If you're not getting a response and you're not getting the verbal cues, yes and that person is telling you, “No, I’m not comfortable with that. This is not what I want,” and you have to coerce, or try to convince someone, then you're not that good,” because that doesn't happen with coercion and force and all that.
That takes place because two mutual parties have agreed that they are consenting to this particular act, and they are consenting to the next particular act. Again, it should give you feedback and this is the actual conversations that I have. It should give you confidence if you're hearing a, “Yes. I like that. Yes, I enjoy that. No, we can stay away from that.” If you're not getting any of that, then you should be questioning what you're doing.
[00:16:00] RW: Yeah. That frank discussion that you're talking about around what is consent, having that very clear no means no. If you do not have a yes, because the person, they're either drunk or unconscious, well that doesn't mean – they didn't say no, but they couldn't say no.
[00:16:23] DM: Or they could be in shock. They could be in shock, because they could be so shocked by your behavior, because you're a totally different person than you presented in the beginning. They could be in shock and not be able to verbalize. Or they could be in fear that I don't know what's about to happen here.
Sometimes it is, “You know what? I’m going to concede just to get this over with, so I can get out of here.” That's still a sexual assault, because that wasn't what that person had intended to do, nor did they want to do it. But again, they felt pressured, they felt threatened, and they felt like that was the necessary thing to do to survive it and get out alive. In some cases, that's the case. We often tell survivors, whatever you did to survive it, then you did the right thing, because you're here to tell your story. You survived it. That may not have been the next person's storyline, but it was yours.
If you got through it and you were able to survive it and get out of that act and you're able to talk about it now, then you did what you needed to do and you did the right thing, because you're here to talk about it.
[00:17:36] RW: Do you find that when you're talking to young ladies, and now we're moving into more of the intervention, but when you're in the situation, when you're with a victim, you're talking with them about what happened, do you feel that women don't report because they think it was their fault?
[00:17:53] DM: Yes, absolutely. There is a great percentage of women that feel – and I can say on this note, this often affects men also, because that is a violation of a man. That if someone violated them in such a vile way, they often cannot determine whether this is something, because a lot of times, as we know, a male's body will react to stimulation, regardless. Sometimes that's that blurred line. When we have young men who are assaulted, sometimes there's that confusion at the, “Wait. Did I lead them on? Did I like what happened, because my body reacted to it?” It’s like, no. It was a violation.
Oftentimes, it's hard for people to get past that, because your body, if there’s stimulation, the body will sometimes react, even if the act is horrendous, and it's a horrific act, and it's not what you wanted. Your body sometimes does other things, and so it's a confusion thing. Then a lot of times we do take on that, “Oh, wow.” I’ve heard so many times, “I shouldn't have gone back to it. I should have known better. I should have saw it coming.” If we were mind readers, we would all be rich, because we would certainly have dodged a few things [inaudible 00:19:14]. I would have got that great job opportunity if I knew this. You know what I mean?
This is all these things, or I would be running a program that is catered around women and men and youth that need services, that it developed in the inner city, all these things that we would want to do if we could read minds, but we can't. You can't tell if somebody has an ill intent for you. Sometimes you can, but most times you can't, because if they are intending to do an act, they sometimes will do everything that they can to convince you that they're not that person and convince you to, “Oh, you can trust me.” That's how family members get groomed.
I often say that even with children. Children have a natural instinct when they feel comfortable and when they don't. It's not to say that that person is a perpetrator, or that person is this evil person, but it is training our children when they're early, when they're younger, to – if you feel uncomfortable about a situation, own that. I’m not going to press you to go hug and kiss uncle so-and-so and auntie so-and-so and grandma so-and-so and Lola so-and-so. I’m not going to do that, because, if you feel uncomfortable, then I want you to be able to own those feelings and it just maybe it might be the moment. Later on, they'll come around and be like, “Okay.”
Some people have to warm up and they got to get to know you. All these things are paramount when you started young, so as we get older, we can sometimes maybe say, “Uh, mm-mm. This doesn't feel right. Nah.” Or even if something does happen, again, it's not your fault. That person was just that good in being a perpetrator that they violated those boundaries with you.
[00:21:02] RW: I hold a piece about feeling that, regardless of whether the victim is male or female, or a child, feeling as though it was your fault and feeling they will not believe you. Therefore, you conceal it. Often, you're told that if you tell, “I couldn't believe you,” and the perpetrator has their side of the story, “Well, she came onto me,” or, “No, why would I touch a child?”
They have such a strong argument of that they couldn't possibly be a perpetrator, but our society has built up these stereotypes and they often blame the victim, so that the victim is already feeling they're not going to be believed. They were there at night. They did have a drink or two. They had on whatever clothing. These are the things that people use to blame them in court and general and society, so the victim does often just feel like, “Well, let me just get through it and get out of here, because I shouldn't have came. It's my fault. I shouldn't have stayed. I should have left when everybody else left,” whatever they tell themselves. You’re going through this horrible experience.
[00:22:22] DM: That's what we have to change that narrative. We have to start by believing them. If they say it happened, believe them. I’m not counting the ones that, because every time when we say that, people often give the argument, “Well, what about the ones who falsely accuse?” We're not talking about those. I’m talking about the ones where it definitely happened and they weren't believed.
We have to change that narrative as a society, as those that have the information. If someone comes to you, child, friend, foe, even if it's an enemy, I don't wish that on anyone. If someone comes to me and says, “This is what happened to me and I need help. I don't know where to turn.” My first thought is to believe them. “Okay, I believe you.” Because a lot of times, that is the one factor that could be the catalyst to someone getting services, and getting the help they need, or it could be the catalyst that sends someone to a year-after-year-after-year spiraling effect of trying to self-medicate, whether it's drugs, alcohol, sexual behavior. All these things, because you're trying to heal yourself, because you don't want to feel that pain. Because you were not believed, you're reliving that pain over and over again.
If I could say with anything, it's start by believing it happened. People are dealing with all kinds of stuff and perpetrators, sometimes they've been perpetrated, sometimes they've never learned. I’m not giving excuses for them, because clearly what they did was wrong, but they're also sometimes the back stories to their stories, that, without people getting help, and getting services, and talking about it, and speaking up, and being believed, and being supported, all these things will keep happening, because there's a missing link. That support and that belief is absolutely vital to a person healing.
[00:24:23] RW: You talked about trying to get into colleges, but what would you say, not so much when, but what would you say is an approach you'd like to take if you could do more prevention work around sexual assault? What do you think that those discussions should begin?
[00:24:40] DM: I would love to see it most definitely beginning in middle school, even in the elementary school. I would love to see parent groups, so that we could be able to talk to parents about how to support a child, how to recognize some things that may be going on with the child, how to have better open dialogue with a child. Because again, just like you stated earlier, the perpetrator does exactly that and says to them, they groom them and they tell them all these things, “You're not going to be believed. Or, if you say something, I’m going to hurt your family. I’m going to hurt your mother. I’m going to hurt your little brother.”
All these things that are done that keep that child, or that person in this position that they feel that they don't have power. If we couldn't be, and I know that that's a delicate topic for elementary school, but I would love to be able to talk to parents, and have support groups, and things like that to be able to help develop the skill set for parents. If my child doesn't want to stay over auntie such and such’s house, okay. Maybe there might be a reason why. I can't go out. Okay, I can't go out. I had plans. If my child calls me and says, “Mom, I need you to come pick me up now,” we have to go. Stop asking so many questions at first, because a lot of times as parents, we want to know what happened, and we know what, well who?
Sometimes we just got to go. Just act. Go get them. You can have the conversation to find out things later, but go get that child at 2:00 in the morning they don't want to stay, “Okay, I’m coming to get you. I will be right there. Let me wash my face, I’m out.” I’m going to get my child. Because again, sometimes things are happening and we don't always recognize it. We are so trusting of those people that they utilize that trust to take advantage of our children.
It would be elementary school. It would be talking to the parents. Then from middle school up, I think that it should be a part of the curriculum. It should be a part, just like, I remember it when I’m probably dating myself, but we had Home Ec and all of that. Those are things that we did and we learned a lot of good skill sets with that. This should be a part of it, sex education. We're not talking about how to have sex or anything like that. We're talking about how to, first of all, have healthy relationships because sometimes that's a part of the problem too. We don't know what a healthy relationship looks like.
You're thinking, “Oh, that person loves me if he's checking my phones and he's doing all these things.” Learning about healthy relationships, learning about those things. Again, if you are taught what to do if you're uncomfortable, how to speak those words if you're uncomfortable. Starting there, because again, we oftentimes don't get the information until after something happens. I would hope that we could be more proactive, instead of having to be reactive.
[00:27:34] RW: It sounds like you also are very, very clear that we need to be talking to young men, as well as young women about this. Overall, we used to be under the misconception that only young women could be raped, but certainly young men can be raped as well. Women can be perpetrators, as well as men. We're talking about both of those things.
I think, having these conversations, where we can dispel these old myths and stereotypes, I think is so important. The whole rape is only from the boogeyman lurking in the alley. No. No. It’s somebody that you know and that, you said it very well, that you trust. They've gained your trust. They lured you in and now you're their victim. It's not the boogeyman. It's not the stranger. It rarely is that. It's somebody that you usually know. These are conversations that need to be had.
[00:28:38] DM: Yes. Oftentimes, it's the person they know. It's not the stranger. I mean, we do have some occurrences where there's a stranger. It is someone who that person that jumps out the bushes. I hate to use that scenario, but it is some of that. Most times, it is someone who we are familiar with. They have created a space in our lives to what they do, they groom, they develop that, they mold that.
Having that piece and those conversations with like you said, our young men and women. Because we often times don't understand those boundaries. We don't know what consent looks like. We don't know what those boundaries are. There are cases where those boundaries are crossed with intent, but there are also cases where those boundaries are crossed without intent. It's just lack of knowledge.
[00:29:31] RW: Lack of knowledge. That's why we see these stories, where young men are adamantly believing that they hadn't done anything wrong, but yet, they're being charged and the families are distraught, the young ladies believing totally that she did not give any consent. There are these two stories going on. The sadness is that two lives are destroyed, because they were both undereducated about what really they need to know if they're going to be involved in relationships and it's just, what is healthy? What's unhealthy? What is consent? When does no mean no always? People still operating on the little, “Oh, if I just coax them a little bit, then they'll be comfortable and they'll go along with this.”
It shouldn't be about coaxing. That's not what it's about. But those are all old ways of thinking that are being passed on and our young men are being trained this way, to believe that's true. Young women who are being trained to believe that, well, it's okay to have sex, but if you are too eager, then you're not the right kind of woman. You should make it hard to get.
[00:30:53] DM: Right. It's a mixed base that people don't often know what's right, what's wrong. Again, there are some places that is clearly wrong, but there are often again, because we don't have the information and because we are not having these conversations in home, we're not having the conversations about again, what a healthy relationship looks like, what a healthy sexual relationship looks like.
Again, having that piece where if you are having a consensual relationship in New Jersey, the law is you should be hearing a clear yes. It is no means no, but you also should be hearing a clear yes. You can't go off of if they didn't say anything, or he didn't say no. He didn't say yes. If you didn't hear a clear yes, then there's a problem. There's a good little short film that is called The Conversation. It's wonderful.
[00:31:48] RW: Tell us a little bit about that, because I just saw that recently. Tell our audience a little bit about that.
[00:31:54] DM: It's called The Conversation. It's a little brief, maybe 16 minutes. It's so realistic, something that transpired. The guy wakes up and he's reliving his wonderful thing in his head, but not realizing, when he thinks back and goes to talk to the young woman in the picture, that she has a different depiction of what happened, and he's clueless. When they start going over the scenario of the night and they show how their night transpired, they go back in time and show how it happened, and everything that occurred, there was that blurred line for him, because she's clearly saying, “No, I don't feel comfortable. No.” She clearly states, “I do not want to have sex.”
[00:32:38] RW: A couple of times she said no.
[00:32:40] DM: Yes, a couple of times. Here's the other thing, people often don't consider, “Well, if I make you perform a sexual act on me, that that's not sex.” That's still a sexual assault.
[00:32:52] RW: Yes, it was unwanted.
[00:32:54] DM: Yes, unwanted. You had to coerce, coax, basically force, because you forced her nicely. Well, I guess in his mind, it was to force nicely, but it was force. She clearly has stated that she did not want it. She was even brushing his hand off and no and no. When I saw that, I was like, wow, how many times has that scenario played out? Even after, his afterthought, he's sitting there thinking like, wait. He had to think about it, because when they're having a conversation, he still wasn't getting it until afterwards. He's sitting by himself and then he's thinking about everything that went on that night.
Maybe it's left that did he actually get it? Or maybe he did, maybe he didn't. The way it was played out, I think it was perfect, the gentleman who did it, it was great. It was great. They needed to utilize that.
[00:33:47] RW: I think it's going to be an excellent teaching tool. I would certainly love to use it and see how – I think it's on YouTube. It was sent to us by A CALL TO MEN.
[00:33:58] DM: A CALL TO MEN. Yes, that's where I received it from. I sent this to my staff. I was like, “You all got to look at this.”
[00:34:05] RW: It was excellent. Again, it's about what you're saying this whole time, that re-education of young people. The older people need to be re-educated as well, because –
[00:34:16] DM: Exactly.
[00:34:17] RW: They keep teaching these younger generations this old stuff they were taught.
[00:34:22] DM: Bad information. Bad information.
[00:34:24] RW: The tale is going on and on again.
[00:34:27] DM: Yes. It’s bad information that gets passed down through generations. That doesn't work. We have to be comfortable with being uncomfortable. Yes, the topic about sex and all that, as a parent it's not the easiest topic to want to approach, but it's so necessary. It is so necessary to have these conversations. If you really know, as a parent, that you're not the person, then I would suggest seeking assistance with people that can assist you with that conversation.
Maybe someone can sit in when you're having the conversation, to give you support, but you take the lead on the conversation, because these things are our children are being tortured, our children are being abused, our children are being assaulted, because again, we are not addressing the issue, and we are so fearful of having that conversation, that we are putting not only our kids, but we are often putting ourselves at risk, because we're not talking about it.
[00:35:30] RW: I am so glad you were able to come in and chat with us tonight, Daunielle. I just want to thank you again. Daunielle Munir from the Center for Family Services. You have been a wonderful guest tonight. You brought us a lot of powerful information and we would love for you to possibly come back again, because I know this is just the tip of the iceberg on this topic. Before we leave, is there anything else you want to share with us in our last few minutes?
[00:36:02] DM: If I could, I guess, leave with anything, I would say let's start by believing. Let's break that cycle of no, it didn't happen. Not that person, whoever they are in the family and wherever the hierarchy they are in community. Let's start by believing and let's support each other. That is a big thing. Let's support each other. I might not have walked in your shoes. It may not have happened to me at all, but I could still have empathy with you, and your story,s and what happened to you.
I think that if I could say anything, let us start by supporting each other. Let's start by believing each other and just holding each other up, because sometimes that's the missing link. People are dealing with things and I totally understand that. Without having that support and that connection and sometimes it doesn't always come from our family. If it comes from someone outside, support that person, believe them.
[00:37:00] RW: Wonderful. Well on that, we're going to say thank you again, and we're going to just for anybody who is listening tonight, who may be in need of services, we at Harambe Social Services do provide counseling at 609-225-6936. We are in South Jersey. Of course, we see anyone who's interested, via Zoom if you are in need of that help, please give us a call and we'll be happy to talk to you. Also, we'd like to give you the hotline number for SERV. That number is?
[00:37:43] DM: 1-866-295-SERV, which is 7378. Again, 1-866-295-7378. It's a 24-hour hotline. We're all here to help each other. Harambe works with us, we work with Harambe. If we don't provide it, we can always give it to someone who does. Just reach out. Reach out to any of us if you need services.
[00:38:09] RW: That's wonderful. Well, thank you again and we want to say good night.
[00:38:13] DM: Thank you. Good night, everyone. Stay safe. Stay blessed.
[END OF EPISODE]
[00:38:18] RW: Thanks for joining We Hear You Podcast with our host, Rose Williams from Harambe Social Services, a grassroots organization in South Jersey. Harambe is Swahili for pulling together in unity. We use the principles of the Ingusa Saba in all of our services, to educate communities about domestic violence and sexual assault.
Our primary focus is to provide counseling services to victims and survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault. If you or someone you know needs to talk to us, please call 609-225-6936. Again, that number is 609-225-6936. Our counseling services are free of charge.
Be sure to follow Harambe Social Services on Instagram and Facebook. We would love to hear your feedback about tonight's focus. Tell a family member and a friend about the show. You can help us get the word out and go to buzzsprout.com to make a review.
Thank you. Be safe. Be well.
[END]